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Visit Eco-geek's column >>

ECO-GEEK

I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Articles Posted: 18  Links Seeded: 32
Member Since: 1/2007  Last Seen: 7/21/2011

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New technique creates cheap, abundant hydrogen: report

Seeded on Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:38 AM EST
Read ArticleArticle Source: Yahoo! News
science, ethanol, biofuel, hydrogen, alternative-fuel, electrohydrogenesis
Seeded by Eco-geek
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US researchers have developed a method of producing hydrogen gas from biodegradable organic material, potentially providing an abundant source of this clean-burning fuel, according to a study released Monday.

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  • Eco-geek's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: Alternative Energy - Greenvine, Living with Less, Permaculture, The Green Room
  • Regions: none
  • Public Discussion (19)
Eco-geek

Move over, ethanol! Hydrogen really is the fuel of the future if we can figure out a way to store it safely.

H2 + 2O2 -> 2H2O

Doesn't really get any cleaner than that.

  • 4 votes
Reply#1 - Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:45 AM EST
space guy

A most excellent seed!

  • 4 votes
Reply#2 - Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:36 AM EST
Eco-geek

Thanks! While hydrogen as a fuel for mobile sources concerns me (really, who wants to see more Hindenbergs?), it has great potential in other arenas, and could work for mobile sources if we can find a way to store it safely.

Still, this is some impressive research. I'm very excited to see if this ever makes its way to full-scale development.

  • 3 votes
#2.1 - Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:41 AM EST
kurtstack

Well the new technologies they are working on actually don't require hydrogen storage. The hydrogen is actually created and immediately used by the engine. Electrolosis actually is performed while your car is running. Therefore, all you need to store in your car is water. This technology shows promise, and apparently GM is first in line to license the technology.

  • 2 votes
#2.2 - Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:35 PM EST
Eco-geek

Not to be contrary, kurtstack, but where does the energy for electrolysis come from? Do you have any more info on this technology? I'm just kinda curious...seems like there has to be another part of the equation.

  • 2 votes
#2.3 - Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:57 PM EST
kurtstack

Yep it's described in this article:

Basically it uses a battery, solar panels and some carbon inserts as catalysts for the reaction. An electric impulse is sent through the water causing it to bubble with hydrogen gas. I'm still not totally clear on the details myself but it sounds promising. Check it out.

  • 3 votes
#2.4 - Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:28 PM EST
space guy

The reaction rate is the key. I will check it out but I am skeptical that the reaction rate is high enough in real time to run a car. It would be great for hydrogen filling stations though.

  • 3 votes
#2.5 - Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:22 PM EST
stevetherobot

Hydrogen is actually safer than gasoline.

  • 1 vote
#2.6 - Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:52 AM EST
Eco-geek

stevetherobot - Why do you say that?

The gaseous phase of both hydrogen and gasoline is what is combustible, and in most any temperature and pressure the fuels are likely to be in during an accident, most if not all of the hydrogen will be in the gaseous phase whereas a very small portion of the gasoline will be in the gaseous phase. I'd have to take a look at the heat of combustion of the two materials, and look at the vapor-liquid equilibrium of gasoline, but I suspect there is a lot more energy to be released in igniting the gaseous hydrogen than there is in igniting the gaseous gasoline.

  • 1 vote
#2.7 - Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:27 AM EST
kurtstack

You are right, hydrogen gas is much more explosive than gasoline.

  • 2 votes
#2.8 - Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:37 AM EST
kurtstack

The reaction rate is the key. I will check it out but I am skeptical that the reaction rate is high enough in real time to run a car. It would be great for hydrogen filling stations though.

It's all about using catalysts to enhance the rate of the reaction.

  • 2 votes
#2.9 - Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:40 AM EST
stevetherobot

Because it is so light, hydrogen disperses and floats skyward when leaked — it won't pool or soak into clothing like gasoline, just waiting to ignite. (Spilled hydrogen won't soak into the earth and pollute ground water either, or cause an environmental disaster like the Exxon Valdez.)

But what if the hydrogen does somehow ignite in a car? Tests conducted at the College of Engineering at Miami University aimed to find this out. 3000 cubic feet per minute of hydrogen was leaked from a vehicle tank and set alight. Over the course of the burn, temperature sensors inside the vehicle did not measure an increase of more than 1 or 2 degrees centigrade anywhere inside the vehicle. The temperature of the surface of the outside of the vehicle did not climb above that of a vehicle sitting in the sunshine!

This might sound unintuitive. But when a carbon-based fuel like gasoline burns, glowing hot soot particles transfer the heat to its surroundings — potentially including you. But because hydrogen contains no carbon, it burns cleanly without a residue of hot soot, producing little radiant energy. This means that a victim would have to be practically in the flame in order to get burned.

Pressurized hydrogen tanks are made to withstand enormous impacts, and fail gracefully, if at all. Some fear that a hydrogen tank has the potential to explode, and that is possible. But these critics often overlook the greater explosive potential of the gas tanks in their very own cars.

http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid205.php

    #2.10 - Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:17 PM EST
    Reply
    Dr Know

    Hydrogen burns with an almost colorless light blue flame. You can be on fire and not know it. It was always a problem with the Hydrogen/Oxygen rocket motors. You had best have plenty of heat sensitive sensors around if you are generating hydrogen.

    • 3 votes
    Reply#3 - Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:48 PM EST
    space guy

    Fuel cells, chemical reaction, not combustion.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#4 - Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:05 AM EST
    Dr Know

    Combustion IS a chemical reaction.

      #4.1 - Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:38 AM EST
      Synthesis

      Combustion IS a chemical reaction.

      'course, so is rust. But ya gotta admit, that having something rusting near hydrogen is not likely to create a huge conflagration risk. . . which was the point of the discussion, I thought...

        #4.2 - Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:44 AM EST
        space guy

        Dr. Know

        In the broadest sense of the word yes but not really in day to day terms. Combustion happens at high temperatures, hundreds to thousands of degrees, while a fuel cell temperature is usually not more than about 90 degrees C (PEM cells). Another thing about hydrogen, it does not stay around. As the lightest gast, it tens to float away very quickly whereas gasoline's vaport tend to stick around.

        • 1 vote
        #4.3 - Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:47 AM EST
        Reply
        Synthesis

        Clipped to the permaculture group.

          Reply#5 - Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:42 AM EST
          gladbutterfly

          Good find, Geek. A hope-inspiring development.

            Reply#6 - Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:34 PM EST
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