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ECO-GEEK

I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Articles Posted: 18  Links Seeded: 32
Member Since: 1/2007  Last Seen: 7/21/2011

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Iraq War Funding - A Democratic Miscue?

Fri Nov 9, 2007 9:48 AM EST
iraq, politics, funding, iraq-war, pelosi
By Eco-geek
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With the situation looking slightly up in Iraq, House Democrats are poised to send the President another war funding bill tied to a timeline for troop withdrawal. Casualties, both of US soldiers and Iraqi civilians, are down in recent months, and other signs point to progress being made in Iraq. Recent reports talk of Sunnis returning to their previously-abandoned Baghdad neighborhoods, a cease-fire with the Mahdi Army, and continued success against Al Qaeda in al-Anbar province. In light of this good news, I have to wonder if Democrats' stance to tie funding to set withdrawal dates is wise.

Recent casualties have made 2007 the deadliest year for US forces in Iraq, and given this, it's no surprise that opposition to the war has hit its peak. But can Democrats sustain this hardline opposition to the war given the improving signs? Nancy Pelosi has said that if the President vetoes this bill that no funding bill will replace it this year. (link) Given the Democrats recent failures with this tactic, I don't see things working out any better this time, particularly when the situation seems to be improving.

I've never been one to support the original invasion of Iraq, but I've since advocated a "you break it, you buy it" policy. We broke Iraq, and it's our responsibility to make it better as long as that's possible. It will take someone far more qualified than I to say when Iraq is sufficiently fixed, but I have a hard time supporting pulling the rug out from underneath the troops when it looks like they're making progress, and I doubt I'm the only one.

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  • Public Discussion (12)
jfxgillis

Eco:

There appears to be a paradox/contradiction in your thinking, although I'm not criticizing you for it since you're accurately reflecting the same paradox that exists in the electorate.

Let me take a couple of your facts and put them in reverse order in a statement to try to highlight the paradox:

Even though the situation in the field appears to be improving, public support for the War in Iraq is at the lowest level ever measured.

I think I can resolve the paradox with a simple surmise: War Weariness has set in. If my surmise is correct, then the future course of events is more or less chiseled in stone, because once the citizens of a Republic are afflicted with War Weariness, the war is over one way or the other. It's literally all over but the shouting, and my God will there ever be shouting.

  • 1 vote
Reply#1 - Fri Nov 9, 2007 10:17 AM EST
Eco-geek

I think you're definitely right about the war weariness, but the problem with that is that it always ascribes a single solution, regardless of the situation. But there's a glimmer of hope that we may finally see the chance to withdraw without things descending into chaos, and frankly, I think we owe the Iraqi people enough to see if that's the case.

It may be an unpopular stance, but I think it's the right thing to do. Frankly, a year ago, I didn't see this as a possibility. I only saw our presence as destabalizing, and hurting chances at peace. And it's entirely possible that it has done just that. Maybe if we left last year, or the year before, the violence would be over in Iraq and they would have found some sort of peace on their own. But we've come this far, and trends show significant improvements in the situation there. I think it's folly to stick with the same solution without re-evaluating it given new information (not to say you or others have), but my re-evaluation leads me to believe that given what we're seeing over there now that it's worth putting off forcing a withdrawal for a few months to see if things continue to improve.

Honestly, and I'm not attributing this to anyone in particular, I suspect there are some Democrats who are afraid of what might happen politically if we do finally succeed in winning peace over there. It would probably wipe Bush of all his past sins, and make the Republicans considerably stronger going into 2008.

  • 1 vote
#1.1 - Fri Nov 9, 2007 11:03 AM EST
Adam Hobson

I think you're definitely right about the war weariness, but the problem with that is that it always ascribes a single solution, regardless of the situation.

It's something that our leaders need to take into account before we go into war. Unless the war really is for survival, like WWII, we will quickly grow tired of it. This may cause us to pull out before we are ready, which could very well mean that we caused more harm than good.

  • 2 votes
#1.2 - Fri Nov 9, 2007 11:15 AM EST
jfxgillis

Adam 1.2:

Took the words right out of my mouth. Seriously. Had the same sentence selected for blockquoting, clicked "Reply" and read your comment above the window. What you said.

Eco 1.1:

I suspect there are some Democrats who are afraid of what might happen politically if we do finally succeed in winning peace over there.

Oh, you can forget that notion. Nobody with an I.Q. higher than a beer bottle is worried about too much success. Getting back to zero is almost out of the question. We're looking for the least-worst outcome, not a good one. There's not a single competitive seat held by a Dem in Congress right now where it's possible for the Republican to win in '08 because we'd have "won" in Iraq between now and the election.

I can think of a couple where an anti-war Repub might win the seat back from and anti-war Dem, Kansas, maybe Iowa, New Hampshire, but a pro-war, pro-Bush candidate? Forget it.

  • 2 votes
#1.3 - Fri Nov 9, 2007 12:02 PM EST
Eco-geek

Adam - I agree completely. Planning for this war was short-sighted, to say the least. But just because we shouldn't have been there, that doesn't mean that the proper course of action is necessarily to leave now that we are and have been there.

I want the US out of Iraq too, but if we can create a much more stable country by staying a few more months, then I think that's worth at least considering. And I'm not even saying that we necessarily CAN create a more stable Iraq, but there are some promising signs that shouldn't be ignored.

jfxgillis - I don't think anyone would call Iraq a complete success, but if we can leave without the predicted chaos ensuing, it won't be hard for the Republicans to spin that into a "victory." If that happens, the Democrats lose one of the biggest things they have going for them right now.

  • 1 vote
#1.4 - Fri Nov 9, 2007 1:11 PM EST
jfxgillis

Eco:

I wonder how they'll spin a regional alliance between Iraq and Iran after we leave?

That's not "predicted chaos," but ... it ain't good.

    #1.5 - Fri Nov 9, 2007 2:38 PM EST
    Eco-geek

    Um..."Islamic Reconciliation?"

    You're right...definitely not good, and probably as likely as any other outcome, though I think the Saudis might have something to say about that...

      #1.6 - Fri Nov 9, 2007 2:56 PM EST
      Reply
      Eco-geek

      I'm not much of a fan of the war, but pushing so hard to end it when the Republicans have a lot more ammo to fight back with than they've had in some time seems ill-advised.

      • 1 vote
      Reply#2 - Fri Nov 9, 2007 10:18 AM EST
      jfxgillis

      Eco:

      LAUGH! Did I beat you to your tracking comment? I certainly beat you to your vote.

      I must've spotted this in the Columnist block the minute you published it live.

      • 1 vote
      #2.1 - Fri Nov 9, 2007 10:26 AM EST
      Reply
      Eco-geek

      Nah...I replied to our discussion over in Blaise's article before I remembered the tracking comment. Oops. As for voting, I try to avoid voting for my own articles (except when I accidentally "Post Comment & Vote").

      • 1 vote
      Reply#3 - Fri Nov 9, 2007 10:42 AM EST
      Adam Hobson

      But can Democrats sustain this hardline opposition to the war given the improving signs?

      What hardline opposition? So far they have been all talk, no bite.

      • 2 votes
      Reply#4 - Fri Nov 9, 2007 10:51 AM EST
      Eco-geek

      In the "(link)" in the article, it quotes Pelosi as saying that should Bush veto this funding bill that Congress would not be sending another one this year. Assuming she sticks by this statement (perhaps a silly assumption), it will be far more hardline than the Dems have been in the past.

        #4.1 - Fri Nov 9, 2007 1:13 PM EST
        Reply
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